Thanks ! I think folks get caught up in echo chambers and thinking that one solution is the answer to their brain’s issues . When in reality it’s about tools to make our amazing brain more functional at different times of the day , throughout our life , and individualized to the type of brain we have . I am trying to tease my brain back to being more productive during the day and not inventing things and having “ cool ideas “ at night . I worked many years on call so it’s a process to regain good sleep habits .
I use a bit of meditation at night if my brain is on creative mode . It was productive on call , but not as I age .. lol . I need good sleep . I am starting to see improvement . While I do set priorities I am finding times to just let my brain creatively wander as you say . It doesn’t matter if it’s productive , because I think it can be just an exercise in inventing . Even this is good for the brain like you say .
What’s fascinating to me is that evidence shows that if you are thinking and inventing something , someone else may be doing the same across the world . So when I was brain wandering one day about how to pick up microplastic in the ocean and came up with an idea , I found that a group were already working on it . That was kinda cool because the pleasant brain game was already being implemented by someone else and I could focus back on my priorities , and not feel like I had to make it happen . LOL . I recently had a patient with a similar brain who would go down a rabbit hole with her inventing . It was keeping her from other things so I suggested still doing the creative process , just not acting on it . I think that for her (and I ) the motivation to continue and make it happen comes not from the creative process but from the need for finances to improve , or a desire to “ help the earth “ . So your point that creative process is good in and of itself helps a lot . It is not an exercise in futility but an exercise for the brain . Leonardo Da Vinci did it in spades , right ?
Bravo! You bring good points in all the topics mentioned. It is about integration of the systems, not elimination of one. When we meditate it teaches us to be able to let some unwise thoughts go, and to consider action on the wise thoughts. It is not about not thinking at all! We also can't get rid of self or ego, but we can learn to hold them in a place that allows us to function as a wise human whereby we treat ourselves and others with kindness, compassion and honesty. Great comments. Thank you.
I am so glad you are writing about this as I've been so curious about this point re the DMN. I love the mind wandering/imagination state of being and have found it to be a close cousin to flow. Imaginative mind wandering also often seems to precede an intense flow state for me personally, or lead to intense flow states later when I take the ideas I came up with and do something with them. And, I also love your take on how the DMN is a connector in the brain, as this theme of integration is one that I've also been very interested in re flow (we seem to be able to access many more parts of ourselves during a flow state, my thought was because our inner critic/ego/self-consciousness is less active). In my interviews for my book The Flow Habit, I also noticed that those who come by this imaginative mind wandering easily seem to also get into flow more easily than others. My question is this--in some of the more recent studies of flow, brain scans show that the DMN seems to be significantly less activated during a flow state. Other studies have shown a similar quieting in activity in the pre-frontal cortex during flow states. I know that you're not speaking of the "flow state" directly in this article but since you do mention "creative flow" (which could refer both to a flow state experienced during a creative activity and the flow of ideas during imaginative mind wandering), I am curious about how those findings work into the mix when it comes to the overall role of the DMN. (I realize research is currently ongoing, so it could be we don't fully know yet.)
What an insightful comment — thank you for this! You've put your finger on exactly the puzzle the research is wrestling with right now.
Here's how I reconcile it: The DMN isn't one single thing, and flow doesn't switch it off wholesale. The clearest window into this is Charles Limb's brain-scan work with jazz musicians improvising: during that creative flow, the self-monitoring lateral prefrontal cortex goes quiet (the inner critic stepping back, exactly as you intuited), while the medial prefrontal cortex (a core hub of the default mode network) actually ramps up. So the part of the DMN tied to internally generated, self-expressive material gets more active in flow, *not* less. The studies that show "the DMN quieting" are mostly catching the self-referential, self-evaluative side going offline, which is also what "transient hypofrontality" is pointing at.
That's the integration you're describing: the imaginative, associative machinery starts cooperating with executive control instead of fighting it, and more of you comes online because the gatekeeper finally steps back.
Your two-phase observation is really the key, and beautifully put. Imaginative mind-wandering (rich in DMN activity, and generative) often seeds the absorbed flow that arrives later, when you take the idea and chase it down. Those are two different phases with two different brain signatures. So when I say "creative flow," I mostly mean that generative flow of ideas, which is why the DMN gets to be the hero of this piece even when its self-conscious side goes quiet.
You're right that none of this is fully settled. But the through-line seems to be that flow silences the self-conscious monitor, not the imagination itself. Can't wait to read The Flow Habit!
Thanks for your thoughtful response. You would have been a great interview as I was writing The Flow Habit! Chapter 2 is all about what the research says re what blocks flow, which is where the studies involving the DMN come into play. It seems like anything we can do to let go of what people think, and quiet our self-consciousness/inner critic/ego (wherever that resides in the brain) and open up to our own intuitive/imaginative/flow wanderings is healthy for us and our work, emotional wellbeing, and future creations. I really appreciate you diving into this concept of imaginative mind wandering as it's my other "favorite" state of being. Thanks again for your reply.
Thank you for writing this. I love the rename of the Default Mode Network to the Imagination Network. The ability of our minds to wander into the past, the present and the future is one of the things that make us human. One of the problems with our phone culture is that many of us are eliminating the times when our Imagination Network gets to turn on.
Oddly, right before I read your post, I asked Google AI a question about irony, namely, whether AI can recognize irony in my life descriptions and point them out to me. (The answer, which I expected, was affirmative.) And then I read about the examples of irony in your post. What a delightful synchronicity. It seems to me that "Imagination Network" could be a nickname for PBS. Or a show on PBS. Or at least a recurring feature on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. I'm sure that Fred Rogers would have agreed with your thoughts about imagination.
Great post! Thank you! The DMN is my favorite network, the one I use to solve all kinds of problems and find omissions in what I have written. I harvest its work every morning brushing my teeth! Here is my post to that effect: https://www.howtherapyworks.com/blog/tift95-favorite-brain-network
I love so much of your writing, but this one particularly spoke to me. I gave up the supposed goal of meditation to have a blank mind - it was never going to work for my mind and I wasn't sure the point - and focused on my experience of meditation as clarifying. Guided meditations provide space for my mind to practice important skills related to rumination, focus, acceptance, gratitude, etc. Yoga nidra can be such a powerful visualization tool. Thank you for outlining why this is the case. So many people miss out on the benefits of meditation and mindfulness because they believe the point is to have a mind without thoughts. And what kind of mind is that??? Thank you for your work.
Reading this, I found myself wondering about a possible bridge to Jungian psychology. The DMN is often described as supporting self-referential thought, autobiographical memory, and internally generated meaning-making. Jung's "introverted feeling" also seems to describe a strongly inward, value-oriented mode of experience, where meaning and evaluation arise from within rather than from external cues.
I realize these are very different levels of explanation, but I'm curious whether there might be any partial correspondence between them. Do you think Jung's introverted feeling might be a useful phenomenological description of certain DMN-supported states of self-generated meaning, even if it's not a distinct neural mechanism? Or are these better understood as unrelated frameworks describing different aspects of mind?
Great points Scott . That totally resonates .
So glad to hear it, Corrine!
Thanks ! I think folks get caught up in echo chambers and thinking that one solution is the answer to their brain’s issues . When in reality it’s about tools to make our amazing brain more functional at different times of the day , throughout our life , and individualized to the type of brain we have . I am trying to tease my brain back to being more productive during the day and not inventing things and having “ cool ideas “ at night . I worked many years on call so it’s a process to regain good sleep habits .
I use a bit of meditation at night if my brain is on creative mode . It was productive on call , but not as I age .. lol . I need good sleep . I am starting to see improvement . While I do set priorities I am finding times to just let my brain creatively wander as you say . It doesn’t matter if it’s productive , because I think it can be just an exercise in inventing . Even this is good for the brain like you say .
What’s fascinating to me is that evidence shows that if you are thinking and inventing something , someone else may be doing the same across the world . So when I was brain wandering one day about how to pick up microplastic in the ocean and came up with an idea , I found that a group were already working on it . That was kinda cool because the pleasant brain game was already being implemented by someone else and I could focus back on my priorities , and not feel like I had to make it happen . LOL . I recently had a patient with a similar brain who would go down a rabbit hole with her inventing . It was keeping her from other things so I suggested still doing the creative process , just not acting on it . I think that for her (and I ) the motivation to continue and make it happen comes not from the creative process but from the need for finances to improve , or a desire to “ help the earth “ . So your point that creative process is good in and of itself helps a lot . It is not an exercise in futility but an exercise for the brain . Leonardo Da Vinci did it in spades , right ?
Bravo! You bring good points in all the topics mentioned. It is about integration of the systems, not elimination of one. When we meditate it teaches us to be able to let some unwise thoughts go, and to consider action on the wise thoughts. It is not about not thinking at all! We also can't get rid of self or ego, but we can learn to hold them in a place that allows us to function as a wise human whereby we treat ourselves and others with kindness, compassion and honesty. Great comments. Thank you.
Thanks Ginny!
I am so glad you are writing about this as I've been so curious about this point re the DMN. I love the mind wandering/imagination state of being and have found it to be a close cousin to flow. Imaginative mind wandering also often seems to precede an intense flow state for me personally, or lead to intense flow states later when I take the ideas I came up with and do something with them. And, I also love your take on how the DMN is a connector in the brain, as this theme of integration is one that I've also been very interested in re flow (we seem to be able to access many more parts of ourselves during a flow state, my thought was because our inner critic/ego/self-consciousness is less active). In my interviews for my book The Flow Habit, I also noticed that those who come by this imaginative mind wandering easily seem to also get into flow more easily than others. My question is this--in some of the more recent studies of flow, brain scans show that the DMN seems to be significantly less activated during a flow state. Other studies have shown a similar quieting in activity in the pre-frontal cortex during flow states. I know that you're not speaking of the "flow state" directly in this article but since you do mention "creative flow" (which could refer both to a flow state experienced during a creative activity and the flow of ideas during imaginative mind wandering), I am curious about how those findings work into the mix when it comes to the overall role of the DMN. (I realize research is currently ongoing, so it could be we don't fully know yet.)
What an insightful comment — thank you for this! You've put your finger on exactly the puzzle the research is wrestling with right now.
Here's how I reconcile it: The DMN isn't one single thing, and flow doesn't switch it off wholesale. The clearest window into this is Charles Limb's brain-scan work with jazz musicians improvising: during that creative flow, the self-monitoring lateral prefrontal cortex goes quiet (the inner critic stepping back, exactly as you intuited), while the medial prefrontal cortex (a core hub of the default mode network) actually ramps up. So the part of the DMN tied to internally generated, self-expressive material gets more active in flow, *not* less. The studies that show "the DMN quieting" are mostly catching the self-referential, self-evaluative side going offline, which is also what "transient hypofrontality" is pointing at.
That's the integration you're describing: the imaginative, associative machinery starts cooperating with executive control instead of fighting it, and more of you comes online because the gatekeeper finally steps back.
Your two-phase observation is really the key, and beautifully put. Imaginative mind-wandering (rich in DMN activity, and generative) often seeds the absorbed flow that arrives later, when you take the idea and chase it down. Those are two different phases with two different brain signatures. So when I say "creative flow," I mostly mean that generative flow of ideas, which is why the DMN gets to be the hero of this piece even when its self-conscious side goes quiet.
You're right that none of this is fully settled. But the through-line seems to be that flow silences the self-conscious monitor, not the imagination itself. Can't wait to read The Flow Habit!
Thanks for your thoughtful response. You would have been a great interview as I was writing The Flow Habit! Chapter 2 is all about what the research says re what blocks flow, which is where the studies involving the DMN come into play. It seems like anything we can do to let go of what people think, and quiet our self-consciousness/inner critic/ego (wherever that resides in the brain) and open up to our own intuitive/imaginative/flow wanderings is healthy for us and our work, emotional wellbeing, and future creations. I really appreciate you diving into this concept of imaginative mind wandering as it's my other "favorite" state of being. Thanks again for your reply.
Thank you for writing this. I love the rename of the Default Mode Network to the Imagination Network. The ability of our minds to wander into the past, the present and the future is one of the things that make us human. One of the problems with our phone culture is that many of us are eliminating the times when our Imagination Network gets to turn on.
Thanks, Olivia!
Oddly, right before I read your post, I asked Google AI a question about irony, namely, whether AI can recognize irony in my life descriptions and point them out to me. (The answer, which I expected, was affirmative.) And then I read about the examples of irony in your post. What a delightful synchronicity. It seems to me that "Imagination Network" could be a nickname for PBS. Or a show on PBS. Or at least a recurring feature on Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. I'm sure that Fred Rogers would have agreed with your thoughts about imagination.
Love it!
Great post! Thank you! The DMN is my favorite network, the one I use to solve all kinds of problems and find omissions in what I have written. I harvest its work every morning brushing my teeth! Here is my post to that effect: https://www.howtherapyworks.com/blog/tift95-favorite-brain-network
AWESOME!
I love so much of your writing, but this one particularly spoke to me. I gave up the supposed goal of meditation to have a blank mind - it was never going to work for my mind and I wasn't sure the point - and focused on my experience of meditation as clarifying. Guided meditations provide space for my mind to practice important skills related to rumination, focus, acceptance, gratitude, etc. Yoga nidra can be such a powerful visualization tool. Thank you for outlining why this is the case. So many people miss out on the benefits of meditation and mindfulness because they believe the point is to have a mind without thoughts. And what kind of mind is that??? Thank you for your work.
Exactly!!!
Reading this, I found myself wondering about a possible bridge to Jungian psychology. The DMN is often described as supporting self-referential thought, autobiographical memory, and internally generated meaning-making. Jung's "introverted feeling" also seems to describe a strongly inward, value-oriented mode of experience, where meaning and evaluation arise from within rather than from external cues.
I realize these are very different levels of explanation, but I'm curious whether there might be any partial correspondence between them. Do you think Jung's introverted feeling might be a useful phenomenological description of certain DMN-supported states of self-generated meaning, even if it's not a distinct neural mechanism? Or are these better understood as unrelated frameworks describing different aspects of mind?
Enjoyed reading this, and agree!