i feel like when you're in awe, you see and understand that there is something bigger than yourself, maybe something that we don't understand. you get a sense of divinity that is around us
You‘ve tempted me to think about this…. But at the very beginning I know, we are a self among many selves, and just being a self is an ineffable gift of depth, breadth, and complexity, and add to this the whole of where we are. I kind of feel as if the gravity of self is the very definition of sin, but the obliteration of it as sought by so many is perhaps sin in a greater degree. I think of Buber‘s book, I and Thou, and it is a book that I love, but he doesn‘t obliterate the I, rather he asks us to see within thou the I that exists. And seeing it, whether it is another human or an oak tree we approach, we can enter into an I thou relationship. Is this transcendence? I believe it certainly is. Is it the obliteration of I? I think those who feel that to transcend I it must be the obliteration of I … well… I think they are so wrong I don‘t know where to begin.
Having lived with a Grau Wolf, Canis lupus, intimately for his lifetime, seeking his fulfillment, learning that to him, only I-You relationships exist, even his predation (of this Nothing can claim absence or innocence!), being contingent, testing, playing with the "other", there is no obliteration, only change.
He abandoned all I-it, upon discerning that no you was present in repetitious invariant trajectories. Even the babblings of human languages were unimportant to him, rather than incomprehensible. Only the sensory awareness of emotional salience, led him to unerring accuracy of evaluation.
It was learning, from initially nebulous signals, into concise awareness, conscious evaluations leading to predictive assessments of others' behaviors, that made him a precise reader of minds.
No matter that these things include olfaction of sure hormonal signals, or physical gestural behavioral signaling, i learned to note his responses to even rather distant or trending biasing toward action of others of several species, including our own deceptive kind, we are predictable to the aware.
Brains are evolved to presume agency, and become attentive, only becoming habituated in response to repetitiveness. This is the essence of I-you, versus the I-it stereotyping and inaccurate generalization occurring in humans.
Please know I am trying to understand your response, but can you try again? As it stands now, I‘m not clear of your meaning. It is my problem, I am a pretty simple man, and with this in mind can you help me?
Buber was on to something = brains use presumed agency. Humans, unfortunately, are the most deceptive species, even deceiving oneself. A brain emerges from the usefulness of following gradients, following increased concentrations of any life-promoting sensory stimuli, avoiding sensed increased concentrations that produce noxious effects.
There's no teleology beyond that.
A self exists in any organism, the monitoring occurring through neural stimulation. To overgeneralize, the hormones producing temporary satiation may make it SEEM that a craving self disappears, but life is dynamical, and it's illusion that that craving motivation disappears. It's only temporarily sated, and nonconconscious restoration of the motivational response, occurs.
While this is described in biochemistry, the feeling of pleasure, motivation, temporary satiety are noticeable interoceptions.
Because brains are associative structures we ANTICIPATE feelings, and mistake that marvelous adaptation for the agency that gives rise to philosophy, deities, and other reversed causality.
I recognize emergence as beautiful, whether on occasions of hunger, satiety, or even the times i've been sure of impending death ( it is even a pleasure to have been mistaken so far.)
Do you not remember how you slowly passed through that nebulous vague perception so many times, as a child, into making associations, some mistaken, later going through the process of learning, again, as different and probably also mistaken associations formed different, successive, beliefs?
Everything we imagine is only contingent, a shape ever-changing as we attempt to determine reality from senses existing to preserve our individual self.
Trees may concentrate growth in root tips and the stimulations of radiation to cells associated with tropism toward light.
Did you know that fungi inhabit all living systems, changing their energy efforts, usually in mutually or commensal ways?
We, by the way, are offspring of fungi, along the paths of time.
Hope i have identified the errors and the insight of Buber
If I can use just a few words to try to pass my own train of thought I‘d say a view toward a separate realized individual actuality. Gone are all categories (though they have there use), and in its place is THIS individual, THIS tree, separate but fully defined by the ineffable individual worth of „being“. And I do find Fungi fascinating, but I‘m trying to communicate my core point.
A greater proportion of the self may become aware, available.
As you know, when focusing on a practice, a skill, an issue, a concern, the brain brings appropriate references into sensory & motor utilities, saliences, probable actions, consequences, utilities.
In doing so, sensorimotor memories relevant to situation are prioritized.
This is the mystery and obvious evolutionarily selected focus of the brain/body.
The openness to experience we feel when periods of sensorimotor illumination - let's call it for the moment, the experience of our broadest savior faire - is a natural default state, a practice by the self, the brain/body that allows appropriate response.
This is pleasure, the essential hedonic sensation of self, of being. The driver of optimism, of inclusive choices, even of the specific desires an organism may have concerning continuing life.
Yes, in human social interactions, dysfunctional dissociation can occur, obsession that imbalances an individual. It's likely that human sociality leads to ingrouping, accretion of jealous ideations and determination to gain through making coalition with others who mistakenly feel comparatively deprived.
Fulfillment of needs leads to the neural and hormonal processes self-signaling satiation for a time.
Behavioral addiction can be a result of such coalition.
Transcendence is inclusion; the more a self is aware of change and its constancy in all sensed, the more secure in this place, this moment.
The French use a word, confiance, to describe trust in process, in others, in self.
I may have mentioned the directions that some cultures prescribe following for fulfillment, for the "right way to live":
Innocence and trust, illuminations (signaled by dreams, interprable through that awareness of being tiny and yet part of all, of that same trust), wisdom of acting with the confidence of all these, and of the essential looking within to find and emphasize what is most emotionally salient, important at this moment.
Notice how following of all paths, all directions at the same time, occurs. That is what is meant by the right way to live.
However much i stumble, i see that in your journeys. We are well, all you, and i.
i feel like when you're in awe, you see and understand that there is something bigger than yourself, maybe something that we don't understand. you get a sense of divinity that is around us
You‘ve tempted me to think about this…. But at the very beginning I know, we are a self among many selves, and just being a self is an ineffable gift of depth, breadth, and complexity, and add to this the whole of where we are. I kind of feel as if the gravity of self is the very definition of sin, but the obliteration of it as sought by so many is perhaps sin in a greater degree. I think of Buber‘s book, I and Thou, and it is a book that I love, but he doesn‘t obliterate the I, rather he asks us to see within thou the I that exists. And seeing it, whether it is another human or an oak tree we approach, we can enter into an I thou relationship. Is this transcendence? I believe it certainly is. Is it the obliteration of I? I think those who feel that to transcend I it must be the obliteration of I … well… I think they are so wrong I don‘t know where to begin.
Having lived with a Grau Wolf, Canis lupus, intimately for his lifetime, seeking his fulfillment, learning that to him, only I-You relationships exist, even his predation (of this Nothing can claim absence or innocence!), being contingent, testing, playing with the "other", there is no obliteration, only change.
He abandoned all I-it, upon discerning that no you was present in repetitious invariant trajectories. Even the babblings of human languages were unimportant to him, rather than incomprehensible. Only the sensory awareness of emotional salience, led him to unerring accuracy of evaluation.
It was learning, from initially nebulous signals, into concise awareness, conscious evaluations leading to predictive assessments of others' behaviors, that made him a precise reader of minds.
No matter that these things include olfaction of sure hormonal signals, or physical gestural behavioral signaling, i learned to note his responses to even rather distant or trending biasing toward action of others of several species, including our own deceptive kind, we are predictable to the aware.
Brains are evolved to presume agency, and become attentive, only becoming habituated in response to repetitiveness. This is the essence of I-you, versus the I-it stereotyping and inaccurate generalization occurring in humans.
Please know I am trying to understand your response, but can you try again? As it stands now, I‘m not clear of your meaning. It is my problem, I am a pretty simple man, and with this in mind can you help me?
Buber was on to something = brains use presumed agency. Humans, unfortunately, are the most deceptive species, even deceiving oneself. A brain emerges from the usefulness of following gradients, following increased concentrations of any life-promoting sensory stimuli, avoiding sensed increased concentrations that produce noxious effects.
There's no teleology beyond that.
A self exists in any organism, the monitoring occurring through neural stimulation. To overgeneralize, the hormones producing temporary satiation may make it SEEM that a craving self disappears, but life is dynamical, and it's illusion that that craving motivation disappears. It's only temporarily sated, and nonconconscious restoration of the motivational response, occurs.
While this is described in biochemistry, the feeling of pleasure, motivation, temporary satiety are noticeable interoceptions.
Because brains are associative structures we ANTICIPATE feelings, and mistake that marvelous adaptation for the agency that gives rise to philosophy, deities, and other reversed causality.
I recognize emergence as beautiful, whether on occasions of hunger, satiety, or even the times i've been sure of impending death ( it is even a pleasure to have been mistaken so far.)
Do you not remember how you slowly passed through that nebulous vague perception so many times, as a child, into making associations, some mistaken, later going through the process of learning, again, as different and probably also mistaken associations formed different, successive, beliefs?
Everything we imagine is only contingent, a shape ever-changing as we attempt to determine reality from senses existing to preserve our individual self.
Trees may concentrate growth in root tips and the stimulations of radiation to cells associated with tropism toward light.
Did you know that fungi inhabit all living systems, changing their energy efforts, usually in mutually or commensal ways?
We, by the way, are offspring of fungi, along the paths of time.
Hope i have identified the errors and the insight of Buber
If I can use just a few words to try to pass my own train of thought I‘d say a view toward a separate realized individual actuality. Gone are all categories (though they have there use), and in its place is THIS individual, THIS tree, separate but fully defined by the ineffable individual worth of „being“. And I do find Fungi fascinating, but I‘m trying to communicate my core point.
“I am everything and I am nothing” 🙌🏼
A greater proportion of the self may become aware, available.
As you know, when focusing on a practice, a skill, an issue, a concern, the brain brings appropriate references into sensory & motor utilities, saliences, probable actions, consequences, utilities.
In doing so, sensorimotor memories relevant to situation are prioritized.
This is the mystery and obvious evolutionarily selected focus of the brain/body.
The openness to experience we feel when periods of sensorimotor illumination - let's call it for the moment, the experience of our broadest savior faire - is a natural default state, a practice by the self, the brain/body that allows appropriate response.
This is pleasure, the essential hedonic sensation of self, of being. The driver of optimism, of inclusive choices, even of the specific desires an organism may have concerning continuing life.
Yes, in human social interactions, dysfunctional dissociation can occur, obsession that imbalances an individual. It's likely that human sociality leads to ingrouping, accretion of jealous ideations and determination to gain through making coalition with others who mistakenly feel comparatively deprived.
Fulfillment of needs leads to the neural and hormonal processes self-signaling satiation for a time.
Behavioral addiction can be a result of such coalition.
Transcendence is inclusion; the more a self is aware of change and its constancy in all sensed, the more secure in this place, this moment.
The French use a word, confiance, to describe trust in process, in others, in self.
I may have mentioned the directions that some cultures prescribe following for fulfillment, for the "right way to live":
Innocence and trust, illuminations (signaled by dreams, interprable through that awareness of being tiny and yet part of all, of that same trust), wisdom of acting with the confidence of all these, and of the essential looking within to find and emphasize what is most emotionally salient, important at this moment.
Notice how following of all paths, all directions at the same time, occurs. That is what is meant by the right way to live.
However much i stumble, i see that in your journeys. We are well, all you, and i.